Yesterday morning, Texas Governor and possible Republican Candidate for President Rick Perry, did something that was labelled shameful and harmful in the eyes of many Liberals and so-called “Fiscal” Conservatives in our great nation:
He actually prayed (GASP!) at a Houston Prayer Breakfast, along with over 30,000 other Americans.
OH, THE HORROR!
Standing on a stage surrounded by thousands of fellow Christians, Gov. Perry called on Christ to bless and guide the nation’s military and political leaders and “those who cannot see the light in the midst of all the darkness.”
Gov. Perry prayed:
Lord, you are the source of every good thing. You are our only hope, and we stand before you today in awe of your power and in gratitude for your blessings, and humility for our sins. Father, our heart breaks for America. We see discord at home. We see fear in the marketplace. We see anger in the halls of government, and as a nation we have forgotten who made us, who protects us, who blesses us, and for that we cry out for your forgiveness.
Speaking for around 13 minutes, the Governor read several passages from the Bible (OH, NOES!) during the prayer rally he sponsored. Thousands of people stood or kneeled in the aisles or on the concrete floor in front of the stage, some wiping away tears and some shouting, “Amen!”
Governor Perry also asked those in the audience to pray for President Obama:
Father, we pray for our president, that you impart your wisdom upon him, that you would guard his family.
Those who refuse to accept the fact that this great nation was founded on a Judeo-Christian belief system, by actual Christians, or as they like to derisively call us, Christianists, are beside themselves over the fact that Gov. Perry unshakably proclaims Jesus Christ as his Savior.
For example, here’s the New York Times, attempting to retain a facade of neutrality, while obviously seething inside:
In many ways, the rally was unprecedented, even in Texas, where faith and politics have long intersected without much controversy — the governor, as both a private citizen and an elected leader, delivering a message to the Lord at a Christian prayer rally he created, while using his office’s prestige, letterhead, Web site and other resources to promote it. Mr. Perry said he wanted people of all faiths to attend, but Christianity dominated the service and the religious affiliations of the crowd. The prayers were given in Jesus Christ’s name, and the many musical performers sang of Christian themes of repentance and salvation.
Mr. Perry, a lifelong Methodist who regularly attends an evangelical megachurch near his home in West Austin, has been speaking and preaching in sanctuaries throughout Texas since he was state agricultural commissioner in the 1990s. Organizers for the event, called The Response: A Call to Prayer for a Nation in Crisis, estimated that more than 30,000 people were at Reliant Stadium when Mr. Perry spoke…
The Times went on to mention that the seating capacity of the Event Center is 71,500, and pointed out all the empty seats in the upper deck, just for good measure.
The Prayer Breakfast was held nine days after a federal judge threw out a lawsuit filed against Governor Perry by a national group of atheists. Their flimsy argument was that his participation in the rally in his official capacity as governor violated the First Amendment’s requirement of separation of church and state.
Defeated in court, the miserable members and supporters of that group, the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation, were among dozens of people protesting outside the stadium. Others miscreants included gay activists who criticized Mr. Perry for supporting the American Family Association, which organized and financed the rally. The association is a conservative evangelical group based in Mississippi that is listed as an antigay hate group by the nonprofit Southern Poverty Law Center.
Gov. Perry invited his fellow governors to join him, but only Gov. Sam Brownback of Kansas, a Republican, attended. Gov. Rick Scott of Florida made a video statement that was played in the stadium.
Then, there’s this from yahoo.com:
On Thursday, a Fox News opinion website called Fox Nation aggregated a “Playbook” column by Politico’s Mike Allen about President Barack Obama’s 50th birthday bash, changing Allen’s typically long headline with this:
‘Obama’s Hip-Hop BBQ Didn’t Create Jobs’
The private party included dinner (“BBQ chicken, ribs, hamburgers, hot dogs, pasta, salad”) in the Rose Garden was attended by Obama’s staff and celebrities including Al Sharpton, Jay-Z, Chris Rock, Charles Barkley, Steve Harvey, Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson. There were performances by Stevie Wonder, R&B singer Ledisi, jazz legend Herbie Hancock. A DJ “played Motown, hip-hop, and ’70s and ’80s R&B.”
“The president asked everyone to dance — and they did!”
The headline, not surprisingly, immediately sparked renewed charges of racism against the network. But Fox is standing by it.
Bill Shine, Fox executive vice president of programming in charge of the Fox Nation site, defended the decision in a statement to The Cutline: “We used the hip-hop reference per Politico’s Playbook story this morning which stated ‘Also present: Chicago pals, law-school friends, donors–and lots of kids of friends, who stole the show by doing dance routines to the hip-hop songs, in the center of the East Room.'”
The network has shut off further comments on the article, which were becoming incendiary.
“We found many of the comments to be offensive and inappropriate and they have been removed,” Shine said.
Previously, the Rapper/Poet/Actor known as Common performed a poetry reading at the White House on May 11, 2011.
His appearance was protested by the New Jersey State Police and their union.
The focus of their concern was the song “A Song For Assata” about a member of the Black Liberation Army named Assata Shakur, previously known as Joanne Chesimard, who was convicted in 1977 of the first degree murder of New Jersey state trooper Werner Foerster. Lyrics of “A Song For Assata” claim that Shakur was wrongly convicted.
Assata had been convicted of a murder she couldna done/Medical evidence shown she couldna shot the gun.
Reportedly, at another poetry reading, Common said, “flyers say ‘free Mumia’ on my freezer,” a reference to Mumia Abu-Jamal, who was convicted of killing Philadelphia Police Officer Daniel Faulkner in 1981.
Jay Carney, the White House Secretary,in speaking for President Obama said that the president does not support, but actually opposes, some of the kind of words and lyrics that have been written by Common and others. Even though the president does not support the lyrics in question, he believed that some reports were distorting what Mr. Lynn stands for more broadly.
If he does not support those lyrics, why was Common allowed in the White House, and, furthermore, why was Hip Hop played at Obama’s 50th Birthday Party?
And yet…the media focuses on a Texas Governor, who dares to proclaim Christ as his Personal Savior.
Kingsjester's Blog 
Everytime I see something like the following, it tells me the person who said it or wrote it thinks David Barton is a historian.
“Those who refuse to accept the fact that this great nation was founded on a Judeo-Christian belief system, by actual Christians”, This is simply an untrue statement of belief with little support in the real world.
No – we on the more rational side of things aren’t besides ourselves “over the fact that Gov. Perry unshakably proclaims Jesus Christ as his Savior.” Every American is allowed to hold whatever faith they wish under the provisions of our Constitution.
The problem lies in his use of xian religion as a political tool, an attempt to sway the evangelical/fundie branch of the electorate in his favour.
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an untrue Statement? Au contraire.
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God. – John Adams
In the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior. The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity. – John Quincy Adams
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see. – Benjamin Franklin
am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others.
I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ. – Thomas Jefferson
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. – The Declaration of Independence, Adopted by Congress, 1776
And before you sputter and claim that David Barton’s not a historian, these words are not from him, they are from the founding fathers themselves.
What color’s the sky in your world?
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As is often the case in such discussions, your “quotes” from the Founding Fathers are incomplete and specifically chosen to provide support for the claim about America being founded as a “Christian Nation”
A bit more complete quote from John Adams, which comes from a letter he wrote to Thomas Jefferson in June 1813,
“The general Principles, on which the Fathers Atchieved Independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite . . . . And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all those Sects were United: And
the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.
Now I will avow, that I then believed, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System.”
Please note that Adams is asserting the value of the “Principles of Liberty” to be of equal value to those of Christianity and that by stating this he is also saying that one is not dependent upon the other for its existence.
Evidently you don’t know that the Treaty of Tripoli, negotiated and signed during Adams time in the Presidency, included the phrase “the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion.”
There is also the not so small matter that John Adams was a Unitarian, who did believe in God but not in the idea of a trinitarian God nor he think of Jesus as anything more than a great moral teacher.
“The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.” John Quincy Adams
Nope! Barton, the guy who is not an historian, found this quote in a book of quotations by William Federer called America’s God and Country: An Encyclopedia of Quotations. It was originally found a book written by John Wingate Thornton, The Pulpit of the American Revolution (1860) It cannot be found in any of John Q Adams papers that we have today.
– A bit more complete quote from Benjamin Franklin, who also had described himself in his autobiography as a “”a thorough Deist. I began to be regarded, by pious souls, with horror, either as an apostate or an Atheist.” “As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think his system of morals and his religion, as be left them to us, the best the world ever saw, or is like to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it.”
I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ. – Thomas Jefferson
Nice bit of quote mining – it comes from a letter that Jefferson wrote to Charles Thomson (1816) explaining how he created what has come to be known as the Jefferson Bible (http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefJesu.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=all )
“I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus … it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw.”
The Jefferson Bible omits all Biblical passages asserting Jesus’ virgin birth, miracles, divinity, and resurrection, leaving only the moral strictures taught by Jesus.
Jefferson wrote to John Adams, January 24, 1814 that the divine aspects of Christ were “the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.”
David Barton is the source of many false quotes about the Founding Fathers. If you wish to learn more about the true thoughts of the Founding Fathers about Religion, there is much available online from reputable sources but I would never rely on any religious site.
“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.”
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefLett.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=269&division=div1
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So says the individual mining quotes for his own purpose.
Courtesy adherents.com:
The three major foundational documents of the United States of America are the Declaration of Independence (July 1776), the Articles of Confederation (drafted 1777, ratified 1781) and the Constitution of the United States of America (1789). There are a total of 143 signatures on these documents, representing 118 different signers. (Some individuals signed more than one document.)
There were 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence. There were 48 signers of the Articles of Confederation. All 55 delegates who participated in the Constitutional Convention of 1787 are regarded as Founding Fathers, in fact, they are often regarded as the Founding Fathers because it is this group that actually debated, drafted and signed the U.S. Constitution, which is the basis for the country’s political and legal system. Only 39 delegates actually signed the document, however, meaning there were 16 non-signing delegates – individuals who were Constitutional Convention delegates but were not signers of the Constitution.
There were 95 Senators and Representatives in the First Federal Congress. If one combines the total number of signatures on the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution with the non-signing Constitutional Convention delegates, and then adds to that sum the number of congressmen in the First Federal Congress, one obtains a total of 238 “slots” or “positions” in these groups which one can classify as “Founding Fathers” of the United States. Because 40 individuals had multiple roles (they signed multiple documents and/or also served in the First Federal Congress), there are 204 unique individuals in this group of “Founding Fathers.” These are the people who did one or more of the following:
– signed the Declaration of Independence
– signed the Articles of Confederation
– attended the Constitutional Convention of 1787
– signed the Constitution of the United States of America
– served as Senators in the First Federal Congress (1789-1791)
– served as U.S. Representatives in the First Federal Congress
The religious affiliations of these individuals are summarized below. Obviously this is a very restrictive set of names, and does not include everyone who could be considered an “American Founding Father.” But most of the major figures that people generally think of in this context are included using these criteria, including George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, John Hancock, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and more.
Religious Affiliation of U.S. Founding Fathers / # of Founding Fathers / % of Founding Fathers
Episcopalian/Anglican 88 54.7%
Presbyterian 30 18.6%
Congregationalist 27 16.8%
Quaker 7 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6 3.7%
Lutheran 5 3.1%
Catholic 3 1.9%
Huguenot 3 1.9%
Unitarian 3 1.9%
Methodist 2 1.2%
Calvinist 1 0.6%
TOTAL 204
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I guess Somerville is of the noveau opinion that Jesus was a homosexual as well.
As a non-Christian, Somerville, why the hell is it so important for idiots like you to step on another’s non-violent beliefs?
You are like the modern homosexual who is by God gonna force everyone else into accepting that his ‘lifestyle’ is normalcy defined, all to assuage the guilty feelings in your own mind.
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Why don’t trolls understand the difference between freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion.
KJ, it smells like Somerone let one fly in here. You might want to air the place out.
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I’m an atheist, and I totally agree with KJ. The country WAS founded by Christians, with Christian principles foremost in their thoughts. To think otherwise flies in the face of logic and history.
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Yeah, I really believe @darwin is an atheist.
@Steyn Fan – the nym says all one needs to know about that person. Doesn’t quite understand, obviously, that his two sentences may be seen as contradictory.
@Lanceman – Why would I think Jesus, if he existed, was a homosexual? What does that reference have to do with anything I quoted?
It is often stated that those who are most obsessed with homosexuals are often fighting their own desires for same sex love. But after you brought it up, I did a bit of the Google dance and found that such claims regarding Jesus being gay are based on fragmentary texts known as the “Secret Gospel of Mark”
http://www.spiritrestoration.org/Church/All%20About%20Church%20Articles/Was-Jesus-Gay.htm
and
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_miss.htm
I will state it again, however, none of it has anything to do with the subject, which is the claim that America was founded as a Christian nation.
How am I stepping on anyone’s non-violent beliefs? To state and attempt to show that the meme “America was founded as a Christian Nation” is untrue should not be seen as “stepping” on anyone. It is simply trying to show to some that there is information available which contradicts certain closely-held beliefs.
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@kingjester post regarding the church affiliations of those men who might be numbered amongst the Founding Fathers has nothing to do with the earlier posts.
George Washington, a member of the Episcopal Church did attend on a regular basis but he always left the church after the sermon and before Communion was offered to the congregation.
In the 1780s, a group led by Patrick Henry tried to pass a bill thru the Virginia Assembly that would have had the state paying for “Christian teachers”. Thomas Jefferson fought this attempt to enshrine Christianity in Virginia and was successful in passing the The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom (1786)
In his autobiography, Jefferson wrote, regarding the passage of the Statute of Religious Freedom:
“Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word “Jesus Christ,” so that it should read “a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion.” The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it’s protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination.”
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Somerville, whether you believe our nation is founded in Judeo-Christian tradition or not is irrelevant. And no amount of argument will change your opinion. The important thing is Gov. Perry has a constitutional right to practice his faith how he wishes. Because you take offense at how he practices his faith is the reason why you don’t wish to believe that this is a Judeo-Christian nation.
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@mizflame98 says something that simply isn’t in any of my comments. I have not once made a comment here that could be construed (by a rational person) as “taking offense” at the way Gov Perry practices his faith.
My words in the first post
All of my words have been to simply note the historical record does not support the claim – “America was founded as a Christian Nation”
The Constitutional question regarding Gov Perry’s xian get-together has to do with the politicisation of religious belief. As noted in the Jefferson writings, religious freedom in America means the government includes under “the mantle of it’s protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination.”
Gov Perry’s actions appear to show that his view of America is one which places xianity at the top of the list for governmental preferences and support.
I take no offense at how he practices his faith, I am however greatly offended at his apparent exclusion of other beliefs from the form of government he appears to support and advocate.
Whether I believe our nation is founded in Judeo-Christian tradition or not is not irrelevant. Although the lead-off is about Gov Perry’s little meeting in a football stadium, every comment including my first one has been about the views held by the Founding Fathers.
And no amount of fallacious history offered her has changed my opinion.
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And no amount of
fallaciousfactualhistory offered her has changed my opinion.
We didn’t expect it would. To quote my friend Deborah:
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not sure why, but even though I’m commenting thru my WordPress account, it is not linking thru my sig
for those who wish to reply at my space
http://somersplace.wordpress.com
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Take a look at this post of mine and leave your thoughts – nasty words are accepted
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